Our baby is 4 weeks old, formula fed and we started her on your routine from Save Our Sleep 10 days ago. While everything is going very well with overnight sleep, the day sleeps are hit or miss. Some days she sleeps fine in both the morning and afternoon sleeps, other days she only sleeps well in one or the other, and two days so far she hasn’t slept well in either. She cries all the way through a sleep time, but not constantly. It seems to me to be a protest cry like you’ve described with breaks in between, but starts up again every 10 to 15 minutes and will keep that up for the entire sleep time.
I have been leaving her in her cot as her protests never last beyond 4 minutes, but I’m afraid she isn’t getting enough sleep. The main difference between the night and day sleeps is that at night she is sleeping in her bassinet in our bedroom and during the day I put her in her cot in the nursery. Should I be sleeping her in the same place all the time? I’m thinking that after a couple of months she will be sleeping in her cot in the nursery full time, so I wanted to get her used to it. Is my approach not a good one?
Our daughter is 8mths old and has been on Tizze’s routine for three days. No worries sleeping for the two nights so far. However her 2 days sleeps have not been any longer than 30mins. I put her to bed after some water, clean nappy, in her 2.5 tog sleeping bag (room at correct temp), and with her comforter (that I have worn for a day). She settles herself in about 3-7 mins but refuses to resettle after 30mins, it’s almost like murder some times – its a protest cry- up and down with some short pauses but no luck resettling in the 6 day sleeps so far. In resettling I can not enter the room – this makes her inconsolable, I have tried- …. It’s time to sleep and shh shh. What other options are there?
I have a toddler almost 21/2 and a 6 week old baby, I am currently trying to teach the 6 week old to self settle. I put her into bed at the times recommended in your routines but she only seems to sleep for 20-40 minutes then wakes up only to fuss around for 1hour, she seems happy enough to be in her bed and doesn’t cry, I’m just wondering if I should leave her in her bed or get her up. It seems if I get her up and take her for a walk in the pram by the time she falls asleep its time for her next feed? Any suggestions
I have a 6 week old baby who sleeps beautifully at night, only waking at 2:30/3:00am then 7:00am. But does not sleep well during the day. Only having 20 minutes here and there. I’ve tried the selfsettling which I know he can do, as he does it at night time to get to sleep. But through the day he can go for hours crying on and off. I have 2 older children that I had on your routines when they were baby’s and had no trouble with them following it. But this little fella just protests every daytime sleep. By the end of the day he’s exhausted and I’m exhausted. What can I do to get his daytime sleeps happening???
I started my baby on your routine at 4 weeks. He was born via emergency c-section after a long labour and came out very distressed and clingy. He only ceases crying when he is held and would only fall asleep on the boob or being rocked. He is exclusively breast feed and it can take up to 1.5 to 3 hours. Whilst feeding he constantly falls asleep. I’m constantly trying to keep him up following your advice making the feeds take even longer between putting him on the play mat to wake him up and burping. i put him into bed to try and allow him to self settle and he just screams. You state that you don’t think a baby should be allowed to emotional cry so I don’t understand how I am suppose to put him onto your routine when he is so distressed having to self settle. But then you say that parents should be prepared for inititial crying – do you believe that this initial crying is just a protest cry? Because I don’t have that kind of baby, my baby now has tears so I feel I must have psychologically damaged him as you seem to believe that babies shouldn’t have tears until they are much older. A week later I am failing miserably attempting your routines that I feel i should just revert to as I was before.
I have been doing the routines to a tee since we got home. Mostly it has been good, with most sleeps little fuss. He moved from routine to routine easily until the last week.
In the last week things have very much changed. Little one won’t go down for his morning sleep. Things then get progressively worse for the rest of the day. He is 8 wks. In the morning I put him down at the allocated time and then he crys on and off but mainly looks around. Sometimes he doses off 10 mins before the 11am feed, just before I have to get him up!
He then fails to settle for the rest of the day. Screaming continuously. I was sure he could already self settle, going from an awake state to asleep within 30mins. He often resettles once asleep. In the night between 10pm and 7am he sleeps prefectly with one feed usually at 3.15am. I always have to wake him at 7am or he would just keep sleeping. The only other thing is that he is feeding for sooooo long. 1.5hrs with changes and sometimes a lot longer. He sometimes keeps asking for more and more. However, I have followed the expressing routines so I am not sure if it is hunger. When he does go to sleep he sleeps fine and has to be woken.
I don’t know if you will get this, but me and my wife have been racking our brains! Our daughter is 9.5 months old, and is doing great! No dummy or anything, is on 2 sleeps a day (first one is 2 or more hours, second is usually an hour) and we are following your routine to the tee.
Our issue is every single night without fail, our daughter is waking up at 10 and crying… We have tried everything, leaving her, going to her.. She stops when we are there and wants to play.. Will laugh and roll around, but when we leave the room, she starts crying again.. We have no ideas, this usually goes for about an hour or longer. She won’t cry the whole time, but will roll around in between and get up on her hands and knees..
Her cry isn’t a big cry,’it’s more of a yell.. And it’s been happening for about 2 Months every night. If you could shes some wisdom, we would forever be grateful!
This is still happening, she has dairy and egg allergies and we had put her on neocate (a formula supposedly good for allergies) for the night feed, so after seeing this (and we noticed she was debeloping a little bit of ecezma) we brought her back to breast milk for all feeds. The first night she slept fine.. But has since resumed the waking between 9-10 and yelling/screaming/playing… She’s now 10 months today and this has been happening for months!
Once she falls asleep she’s out for the night and we usually wake her at 7, but as you can imagine it makes it difficult to get her looked after when she screams at those times.. We leave her alone but it’s so stressful for us, let alone a sitter!
If you have any more wisdom we would forever be in your debt!!!
Hi
I just wanted to know how to tell the difference between a protest cry and an emotional cry. In the book you say that an emotional cry will have tears and be a constant pitch waa waa waa but my son 6 weeks cries tears even when there are pauses and differing pitch and then won’t have tears with what I think is an emotional cry. Sometimes also what I think is a protest cry in the beggining ends up sounding like an emotional cry. Very confused, how do I know when ti get him up? Also when I do leave him to cry his ‘protest’ cry for a ling time, he gets very overheated and i feel i have to get him up to cool down as he is prone to heat rash. Please help!
Hi Tizzie,
Can protest cries have tears? My son is 3.5 months and 7.2kgs. He used to self settle, but then I got sick and he started teething.
So I’m now starting to try get him to self settle again, his cry sounded very much like a protest cry, but I went in and he had tears. he even sobbed in his sleep. Does this mean that those cries were emotional?
Thanks,
Linda
Hi Tizzie!
We followed your routines from 10weeks old with my son (as soon as i heard about your wonderful book!) and had success so when i got pregnant with my daughter 3 years later we knew we would be starting her on a routine as soon as possible!
My daughter is nearly 3 weeks old, and for the last 2 weeks she has been sleeping brilliantly at night, having a feed at 9.30pm and 2.30-3.30am. But for some reason during the day she can’t self-settle. She cat naps for 20 minutes at a time (if that) and cries for the rest of the time. Sometimes its a protest cry but most often it turns into an emotional throat-rattling ear-piercing cry so we give in and try to settle her with other methods. By the time I have to get her up again for a feed she dozes off during her feed (but still finishes it).
We are following all the bedding advice and using your double wrap and comforter. I just don’t understand why she is brilliant and night but won’t sleep during the day! She’s not hungry, cold, or in bed with a wet nappy so I’m unsure what to do next 🙁
Thank you for your question. There are lots of things we would consider when your little one is waking like this. The first things we would look at are making sure that your baby is being fed until full at each of her feeds, and also that you are winding your baby as explained on pages 49-51 of the baby book.
Other things we would consider are is she being aided to sleep (feeding, rocking, or using a dummy etc) and your baby’s bedding. Many babies do need more layers than advised on the guide, so it is important to use the tips on the guide to assess your baby and increase layers as necessary.
You can find details about what TIzzie advises to do when your little one catnaps on pages 175-179 of the baby book. At this age you should go to your baby when she wakes and resettle her on your chest for the remainder of her sleep time (keeping her swaddled and patting to the beat of your heart).
If you feel that you need further support from here I ask that you join the online advice area so that I and other mums can help you.
The Save Our Sleep Advice area offers a friendly, supportive online community where parents can help other parents establish and follow Tizzie’s routines and advice and help answer any questions that may come up along the way. The advice area is a safe and secure environment where you can chat, help each other and share in the day to day joys, achievements and challenges of parenting.
The Advice Area is a community of like-minded parents who willingly share their experiences, baby advice and support new members. The SOS moderating team checks the advice given and a member of Tizzie’s team will step in only if incorrect, misleading or potentially unsafe advice is given. This area is a Forum only and does not entitle members to support directly from either Tizzie or her team or guarantee you a reply, however Tizzie and her team are active in the advice area when they feel the need to step in. If you haven’t received a reply to your post in the advice area in a timeframe that is acceptable to you then we recommend the following options –
If you haven’t received a reply to your post in the general forum in a timeframe that is acceptable to you then we recommend the following options –
1) Repost your question as it may be seen by other members or if you have asked more than one question within your post please consider dividing your questions and only ask one question per post. This may help and encourage other members to step in and help you as often a member may only know the answer to one of your questions and not the others and members may then feel they can’t answer you at all.
2) Seek out the help of a trusted maternal child health nurse, health visitor or another health care professional.
The Advice Area membership also gives you READ ONLY access to Archived Reading area where you can read further advice of experienced Save Our Sleep parents as well as the Save Our Sleep team. You will be able READ threads in the Archive Library area but you will not be able to post as this area is now closed.
My little one is 21 months. I have been following your routines for a little while now but since going to childcare she is finding it extremely hard to go to sleep. Childcare started at 15 months. Sometimes she won’t even sleep for daycare. She emotional cries if I even leave the room, its not a protest cry (which I can handle). I end up lying on her floor until she goes to sleep. I don’t look or talk to her… I’m just there. She then goes off pretty quickly and she’ll sleep the entire night but day naps as an hour if I’m lucky. She doesn’t use a comforter but did use the cot bars, I have taken your advice on airwraps and tried introducing a favourite teddy. She throws it out and won’t have a bar of it. Before childcare I never even heard a noise when I put her down. I don’t know what to do now.
Thank you for your message. I’m sorry to hear that your daughter is having such a difficult time with her sleep, but unfortunately without lots of detailed information it is very difficult to guide you. Do you have Tizzie’s toddler book? On pages 81-85 Tizzie talks in detail about crying for toddlers and explains that at this age toddlers can learn what cry will get you to come in and can sound like an emotional cry. As your little one is settling quickly and easily when you are in there with her it sounds like this is possibly the case for your toddler. If you have read through the toddler book and still feel unsure what steps to take next with your little ones settling the we would encourage you to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice. This is where our members can help you work through your daughters settling issues by looking at all of her information regadring her routine, diet, bedding etc. in detail, as it is important to be sure that all possible causes of her being unsettled are covered before beginning to leave her to self settle again.
The Save Our Sleep Online Advice offers a friendly, supportive online community where parents can help other parents establish and follow Tizzie’s routines and advice and help answer any questions that may come up along the way. The Online Advice is a safe and secure environment where you can chat, help each other and share in the day to day joys, achievements and challenges of parenting. Tizzie and members of her team are actively involved in this area.
The Online Advice is a community of like-minded parents who willingly share their experiences, baby advice and support new members. The Save Our Sleep moderating team checks the advice given and a member of Tizzie’s team will step in only if incorrect, misleading or potentially unsafe advice is given. This area is a Forum only and does not entitle members to support directly from either Tizzie or her team or guarantee you a reply.
The Online Advice membership also gives you READ ONLY access to Archived Reading area where you can read further advice of experienced Save Our Sleep parents as well as the Save Our Sleep team. You will be able READ threads in the Archive Library area but you will not be able to post as this area is now closed.
I have started following your routine this week. When I put my 7 month-old in her cot for the night and leave the room, her protest cry becomes an emotional cry within minutes, sometimes seconds. I know all of her needs have been met (well-fed/ bedding/ room temp/ routine). When I go in to settle her in the cot, I stay and pat her tummy to sleep (I don’t leave the room after she has calmed, as I don’t want to confuse her). However, I don’t feel like this is giving her the opportunity to self settle, as she is just relying on me to come straight back in and aid her to sleep. I’ve never gotten anywhere near the recommended 18 minutes out of the room after putting her down, because of how quickly her emotional crying starts up.
Should I stay in the room until she’s asleep, even if I only left for a short period after putting her down? Am I encouraging her to self settle or just creating a sleep association with patting her to sleep? Should I leave her to cry for longer before going in, even if her cries are emotional?
Thank you for your message, and well done for getting started with the Save Our Sleep routines 🙂 I’m sorry to hear that your daughter is having such a difficult time settling to sleep, but unfortunately without lots of detailed information it is very difficult to guide you. Something we would look at would be your baby’s pre-bedtime routine, to be sure that she is going down wide awake and isn’t using anything before bed as a sleep aid that she then gets upset because she no longer has. This could include singing or cuddles before bed, feeding too close to bed time, as well as several other things.
It is also important to listen to your baby’s cry closely, as although sometimes it sounds very loud and angry this can be part of baby learning to self settle. An emotional cry will have no gaps or changes and baby does not need to pause at any point. Sometimes parents describe it as breathless as it is contant ‘wa wa wa wa wa wa’ with no change or pause. For a protest cry this will change in pitch, and can go to being very loud and angry sounding, as baby is used to you coming in to her, but is still a protest cry. This will sounds more like ‘wa wa WAAAAAA WAAAA wa waaaaaaaaaaa WA WA WA’ I hope that heps a little, as it can be difficult to explain 🙂
If you are still feeling unsure about your baby’s cries and feel that you need further support with teaching your baby to self settle, we encourage you to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice. This is where our members can help you work through your daughters settling issues by looking at all of her information regarding her routine, diet, bedding etc. in detail, as it is important to be sure that all possible causes of her being unsettled are covered before beginning to leave her to self settle again if you are unsure about her cry.
The Save Our Sleep Online Advice offers a friendly, supportive online community where parents can help other parents establish and follow Tizzie’s routines and advice and help answer any questions that may come up along the way. The Online Advice is a safe and secure environment where you can chat, help each other and share in the day to day joys, achievements and challenges of parenting. Tizzie and members of her team are actively involved in this area.
The Online Advice is a community of like-minded parents who willingly share their experiences, baby advice and support new members. The Save Our Sleep moderating team checks the advice given and a member of Tizzie’s team will step in only if incorrect, misleading or potentially unsafe advice is given. This area is a Forum only and does not entitle members to support directly from either Tizzie or her team or guarantee you a reply.
The Online Advice membership also gives you READ ONLY access to Archived Reading area where you can read further advice of experienced Save Our Sleep parents as well as the Save Our Sleep team. You will be able READ threads in the Archive Library area but you will not be able to post as this area is now closed.
My daughter is 13 months and has been on your routine since arriving home from hospital. Our routine is slightly modified 6am – 6pm, regardless of the new issues she still sleeps through the night. Since developing the skill to self settle I have never had a problem until lately, she has started crying as soon as I walk over to her cot and it is nap or bed time in the evening. She has been refusing her morning sleep and some days I am finding it impossible for her to have an afternoon sleep. She has also been difficult to get to sleep in the evening, which is out of character for her. She will scream and cry until I pick her up, sometimes she just wants me to be in the room and other times she will be standing at the cot expecting me to pick her up. She does not have a comforter but she does suck her fingers. I know she is not cold as I have her room set to a temperature and always dressed the same, and her bedding has not changed. I am really stuck, she also attends day care 1-2 days a week. Daycare is rather relaxed, it sounds like she only has 2 very short sleeps there but she has always adjusted back into her home routine without and issue. I would love any advice you have.
Hi there
I have been following the save our sleep guide for 2 weeks with my 4 month old son.. During the day he does protest cry from 5-10min before going to sleep and sometimes will wake after a sleep cycle and grizzle for another 10 before falling back to sleep and other times he will sleep for full 2hrs without a sound. However at night he protest cries from 30-45mins! We do not go into the room as we know he is ok and when we go into the room to try settle him it doesn’t work. He used to be rocked to sleep and I found when first starting the routine going in and gently rocking the bassinet would stop him from crying so I knew he was just relying on that to settle so didn’t want to continue doing that and can’t now anyway as he has been in the cot the last few days. My question is, is it normal for babies to protest longer at night? And will he ever go to bed and sleep without protest crying and if yes how long do I have to follow the routine before this happens? Thanks Lana
Also I just want to add that I find it hard to stick to the routine at times as baby wakes before 7am and then that mucks up the nap times and also his bed time. What do I do if he wakes early from his naps and night time sleep?
Thank you for your post and well done on getting started on the Save Our Sleep routines and techniques. Here is a link to where you can find an article where Tizzie talks about issues settling at 7pm or waking after 40 mins at the 7pm bedtime – http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/product/1802/31443/ . There are quite a few factors that can impact on baby’s ability to self settle at this time, and this article will explain all of the things we suggest looking at to help your baby settle more easily at this time. Some babies will always have a little protest at bedtime as part of the way they wind down and fall asleep, but with following Tizzie’s advice you should be able to really minimise this and have baby settle without too much fuss. Sometimes this will take just a few days other times it may take a little longer while you work through the possible factors that are causing your baby to have trouble settling.
With waking early, at this age Tizzie recommends feeding your baby if they wake before 6.40am and then popping him back to bed until 7am or for 20 mins whichever is later. This should help him avoid becoming too tired and you should then be able to stick to the routine times. With day catnapping you need to follow the advice on pages 187-191 for how to resettle when your baby wakes early from his sleep and this will help with keeping him to routine times.
Without lots of very detailed information we are not able to guide you accurately. If you feel that you need more detailed support with your little ones sleeps and routine then you may like to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice, where our members can help you look at everything in detail, as Tizzie’s fan page is not a place where we can offer you advice about your baby. http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1805/ .
Thank you for your question. For some babies having a short protest when they are put down for bed can be quite normal and almost a way of winding down for sleep, but there are some things you can look at to help minimise this and help her settle with a little less fuss. Sometimes protesting like this is because they have been aided to sleep a little before going to bed, sometimes this is a cuddle or rocking before being put down, other times this can be as simple as having quiet books being red before bed or not enough active play, so we would encourage you to look at her time before bed and make sure she is getting lots of active play.
Something else you can do is make sure you are smiling and happy and talking to her as you are popping her in her sleep bag, and this can help to reassure her that everything is ok and that going to be is good and happy event.
Without lots of very detailed information we are not able to guide you any further. If you feel that you need more detailed support with your little ones sleeps and routine then you may like to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice, where our members can help you look at everything in detail, as Tizzie’s fan page is not a place where we can offer you advice about your baby. http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1805/ .
Hello, I have started my 16 week old on your routine this week and have seen some really great improvements.
He sleeps through with a dream feed, constantly resettling himself however during the day is a different story.
He will only sleep for one sleep cycle if that! How long will it take before he can learn to self settle himself during naps? Also am I meant to get him up after every nap and praise him or see if he resettles after protest crying? I am also really worried that I am not reading his cries correctly. Im sure that I know the difference its just that the 12 mins kills me! Since starting the routine I haven’t had to go and help him for the 46 mins as he hasn’t cried for long enough and settled himself. Is that normal?
I hope I haven’t asked too many questions!!
Thanks in advance for your help. I just feel really lost.
Congratulations on getting started on Save Our Sleep routines and techniques! If your baby is not sleeping his full sleeps during the day then we would recommend following the advice on pages 187-191 of the latest edition of the baby book (pages 175-179 of the previous edition) which covers the causes of catnapping and how to resettle your baby while you work out why he is waking early.
Tizzie advises for a baby this age that when they catnap you should get baby up and keep him swaddled, and then resettle in the pram or baby swing etc (fully supervised for safety) to encourage more sleep until his next feed is due. What he does will help to indicate why he has woken. If he settles on your chest then this can indicate that he is not warm enough to sleep well in his bed (here is a link to Tizzie’s safe bedding guide to help you work through the possibility of cold http://www.saveoursleep.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/save-our-sleep-article-safe-bedding-guide.pdf) .
If your baby is unsettled and crying and will not settle back to sleep then this can indicate hunger or pain. Winding every 3 mins for breast or 30ml for a bottle will help with possible wind issues, and being sure to always feed your baby until full will help with hunger issues. At this age Tizzie would also suggest that it is time to start solids as per her advice in the baby book and Feeding book, so please have a read of this section to see if your baby is ready to start solids.
If he is wide awake and just looking around it may be that he will benefit from a little more awake time.
Unfortunately without lots of detailed information we are unable to guide you further. If you feel that you need more detailed advice and support then you may like to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice, where our coaches can help you look at everything in detail and work though everything step by step with you. http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1805/ .
Congratulations on your new baby! If it is a cry that is on and off and changing pitch and tone then it does sound like you are correct and that it was a protest cry, especially as he stopped protesting and settled off to sleep from a quiet settled state. Without lots of information though it is really very hard to tell why he may have been making some noise in his sleep after that, it will depend on lots of things including how long he was asleep after he settled and before he started making the noises. We would look at lots of things other things also to help with his settling and sleep including his milk in take (what and how much he is having) his routine, any possible sleep aids, his bedding and quite a few more things. Unfortunately we are just not able to go into that here on Tizzie’s BLOG so if you feel that you need more detailed advice and support then you may like to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice, where our coaches can help you look at everything in detail and work though everything step by step with you. http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1805/ .
You mention about comforter to help baby sleep. Is this applies for baby thats only 4 weeks old? I thought you are not meant to put comforter in their bedding at such a young age due to SIDS?
Tizzie recommends introducing a safe comforter from birth if you are following her advice and using a safe arms down swaddle. Tizzie has put extensive research into the comforters that she recommends to her family, friends and clients. This includes ensuring that they are breathable, that the fur is safe and not loose, that the filling is safe, and that the size of the comforter is safe, among other things. If you are using a comforter other than those specifically recommended by Tizzie, we cannot guarantee it’s safety (the range of comforters Tizzie recommends can be seen here – http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1175/ ).
What I can do is give you some information about Tizzie’s comforters and then you will have to decide if you are happy to use them.
The Save Our Sleep comforters are made from a high quality, asthma friendly, polyester fabric. We tried various cottons but they just didn’t last, most only lasted a year or two and the current ones last 7 years.
All of Tizzie’s comforters have been Australian Standards tested as safe for use from newborn. However, Tizzie recommends that if your baby is less than 6 months of age you should only use a comforter in the cot or crib if your baby is fully swaddled (wrapped). Tizzie recommends swaddling until your baby shows signs of being able to roll while swaddled, which is generally 10-12 months. If your baby is NOT swaddled then Tizzie recommends you should not introduce the comforter until 6 months of age.
The reason Tizzie says not to use the comforters with a baby less than six months and that is not swaddled is because the baby can pull the comforter over his or her face and get a fright. It is not a suffocation risk as the comforters are breathable. Please note that this comment relates specifically to the comforters recommended in the online store. We cannot guarantee the safety of other brands of comforters. For some advice on selecting a safe comforter you can read this link – http://www.saveoursleep.com/free-reading/baby-comforters-comfort-baby-joy-parents/ .
Hi,
My baby is 9 weeks old and after reading the book, I wasn’t too sure about how to put her back to sleep in the night after having her night feed.
Am I supposed to put her down to self settle and wait the minimum 6 mins of protest crying before going in and settling her? Or do I skip that and go straight to the intervening part (patting her) after her feed?
Does this also apply if she wakes up before her next feed is due?
Thank you
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28 thoughts on "Tizzie Hall on Crying"
Our baby is 4 weeks old, formula fed and we started her on your routine from Save Our Sleep 10 days ago. While everything is going very well with overnight sleep, the day sleeps are hit or miss. Some days she sleeps fine in both the morning and afternoon sleeps, other days she only sleeps well in one or the other, and two days so far she hasn’t slept well in either. She cries all the way through a sleep time, but not constantly. It seems to me to be a protest cry like you’ve described with breaks in between, but starts up again every 10 to 15 minutes and will keep that up for the entire sleep time.
I have been leaving her in her cot as her protests never last beyond 4 minutes, but I’m afraid she isn’t getting enough sleep. The main difference between the night and day sleeps is that at night she is sleeping in her bassinet in our bedroom and during the day I put her in her cot in the nursery. Should I be sleeping her in the same place all the time? I’m thinking that after a couple of months she will be sleeping in her cot in the nursery full time, so I wanted to get her used to it. Is my approach not a good one?
Our daughter is 8mths old and has been on Tizze’s routine for three days. No worries sleeping for the two nights so far. However her 2 days sleeps have not been any longer than 30mins. I put her to bed after some water, clean nappy, in her 2.5 tog sleeping bag (room at correct temp), and with her comforter (that I have worn for a day). She settles herself in about 3-7 mins but refuses to resettle after 30mins, it’s almost like murder some times – its a protest cry- up and down with some short pauses but no luck resettling in the 6 day sleeps so far. In resettling I can not enter the room – this makes her inconsolable, I have tried- …. It’s time to sleep and shh shh. What other options are there?
I have a toddler almost 21/2 and a 6 week old baby, I am currently trying to teach the 6 week old to self settle. I put her into bed at the times recommended in your routines but she only seems to sleep for 20-40 minutes then wakes up only to fuss around for 1hour, she seems happy enough to be in her bed and doesn’t cry, I’m just wondering if I should leave her in her bed or get her up. It seems if I get her up and take her for a walk in the pram by the time she falls asleep its time for her next feed? Any suggestions
I have a 6 week old baby who sleeps beautifully at night, only waking at 2:30/3:00am then 7:00am. But does not sleep well during the day. Only having 20 minutes here and there. I’ve tried the selfsettling which I know he can do, as he does it at night time to get to sleep. But through the day he can go for hours crying on and off. I have 2 older children that I had on your routines when they were baby’s and had no trouble with them following it. But this little fella just protests every daytime sleep. By the end of the day he’s exhausted and I’m exhausted. What can I do to get his daytime sleeps happening???
I started my baby on your routine at 4 weeks. He was born via emergency c-section after a long labour and came out very distressed and clingy. He only ceases crying when he is held and would only fall asleep on the boob or being rocked. He is exclusively breast feed and it can take up to 1.5 to 3 hours. Whilst feeding he constantly falls asleep. I’m constantly trying to keep him up following your advice making the feeds take even longer between putting him on the play mat to wake him up and burping. i put him into bed to try and allow him to self settle and he just screams. You state that you don’t think a baby should be allowed to emotional cry so I don’t understand how I am suppose to put him onto your routine when he is so distressed having to self settle. But then you say that parents should be prepared for inititial crying – do you believe that this initial crying is just a protest cry? Because I don’t have that kind of baby, my baby now has tears so I feel I must have psychologically damaged him as you seem to believe that babies shouldn’t have tears until they are much older. A week later I am failing miserably attempting your routines that I feel i should just revert to as I was before.
I have been doing the routines to a tee since we got home. Mostly it has been good, with most sleeps little fuss. He moved from routine to routine easily until the last week.
In the last week things have very much changed. Little one won’t go down for his morning sleep. Things then get progressively worse for the rest of the day. He is 8 wks. In the morning I put him down at the allocated time and then he crys on and off but mainly looks around. Sometimes he doses off 10 mins before the 11am feed, just before I have to get him up!
He then fails to settle for the rest of the day. Screaming continuously. I was sure he could already self settle, going from an awake state to asleep within 30mins. He often resettles once asleep. In the night between 10pm and 7am he sleeps prefectly with one feed usually at 3.15am. I always have to wake him at 7am or he would just keep sleeping. The only other thing is that he is feeding for sooooo long. 1.5hrs with changes and sometimes a lot longer. He sometimes keeps asking for more and more. However, I have followed the expressing routines so I am not sure if it is hunger. When he does go to sleep he sleeps fine and has to be woken.
Help.
Jackie
Hi tizzie,
I don’t know if you will get this, but me and my wife have been racking our brains! Our daughter is 9.5 months old, and is doing great! No dummy or anything, is on 2 sleeps a day (first one is 2 or more hours, second is usually an hour) and we are following your routine to the tee.
Our issue is every single night without fail, our daughter is waking up at 10 and crying… We have tried everything, leaving her, going to her.. She stops when we are there and wants to play.. Will laugh and roll around, but when we leave the room, she starts crying again.. We have no ideas, this usually goes for about an hour or longer. She won’t cry the whole time, but will roll around in between and get up on her hands and knees..
Her cry isn’t a big cry,’it’s more of a yell.. And it’s been happening for about 2 Months every night. If you could shes some wisdom, we would forever be grateful!
Many thanks!!
Hi again!!
This is still happening, she has dairy and egg allergies and we had put her on neocate (a formula supposedly good for allergies) for the night feed, so after seeing this (and we noticed she was debeloping a little bit of ecezma) we brought her back to breast milk for all feeds. The first night she slept fine.. But has since resumed the waking between 9-10 and yelling/screaming/playing… She’s now 10 months today and this has been happening for months!
Once she falls asleep she’s out for the night and we usually wake her at 7, but as you can imagine it makes it difficult to get her looked after when she screams at those times.. We leave her alone but it’s so stressful for us, let alone a sitter!
If you have any more wisdom we would forever be in your debt!!!
Hi,
I signed up for your forum but theres no replies to my thread, this 10pm waking is stressful!
we need some help!
thanks
Hi
I just wanted to know how to tell the difference between a protest cry and an emotional cry. In the book you say that an emotional cry will have tears and be a constant pitch waa waa waa but my son 6 weeks cries tears even when there are pauses and differing pitch and then won’t have tears with what I think is an emotional cry. Sometimes also what I think is a protest cry in the beggining ends up sounding like an emotional cry. Very confused, how do I know when ti get him up? Also when I do leave him to cry his ‘protest’ cry for a ling time, he gets very overheated and i feel i have to get him up to cool down as he is prone to heat rash. Please help!
Hi Tizzie,
Can protest cries have tears? My son is 3.5 months and 7.2kgs. He used to self settle, but then I got sick and he started teething.
So I’m now starting to try get him to self settle again, his cry sounded very much like a protest cry, but I went in and he had tears. he even sobbed in his sleep. Does this mean that those cries were emotional?
Thanks,
Linda
Hi Tizzie!
We followed your routines from 10weeks old with my son (as soon as i heard about your wonderful book!) and had success so when i got pregnant with my daughter 3 years later we knew we would be starting her on a routine as soon as possible!
My daughter is nearly 3 weeks old, and for the last 2 weeks she has been sleeping brilliantly at night, having a feed at 9.30pm and 2.30-3.30am. But for some reason during the day she can’t self-settle. She cat naps for 20 minutes at a time (if that) and cries for the rest of the time. Sometimes its a protest cry but most often it turns into an emotional throat-rattling ear-piercing cry so we give in and try to settle her with other methods. By the time I have to get her up again for a feed she dozes off during her feed (but still finishes it).
We are following all the bedding advice and using your double wrap and comforter. I just don’t understand why she is brilliant and night but won’t sleep during the day! She’s not hungry, cold, or in bed with a wet nappy so I’m unsure what to do next 🙁
Any advice would be very much appreciated!
Thanks,
Sam
Hi Sam :
Thank you for your question. There are lots of things we would consider when your little one is waking like this. The first things we would look at are making sure that your baby is being fed until full at each of her feeds, and also that you are winding your baby as explained on pages 49-51 of the baby book.
Other things we would consider are is she being aided to sleep (feeding, rocking, or using a dummy etc) and your baby’s bedding. Many babies do need more layers than advised on the guide, so it is important to use the tips on the guide to assess your baby and increase layers as necessary.
You can find details about what TIzzie advises to do when your little one catnaps on pages 175-179 of the baby book. At this age you should go to your baby when she wakes and resettle her on your chest for the remainder of her sleep time (keeping her swaddled and patting to the beat of your heart).
If you feel that you need further support from here I ask that you join the online advice area so that I and other mums can help you.
Advice Area – AUD $64.95 http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/product/1805/49457/
The Save Our Sleep Advice area offers a friendly, supportive online community where parents can help other parents establish and follow Tizzie’s routines and advice and help answer any questions that may come up along the way. The advice area is a safe and secure environment where you can chat, help each other and share in the day to day joys, achievements and challenges of parenting.
The Advice Area is a community of like-minded parents who willingly share their experiences, baby advice and support new members. The SOS moderating team checks the advice given and a member of Tizzie’s team will step in only if incorrect, misleading or potentially unsafe advice is given. This area is a Forum only and does not entitle members to support directly from either Tizzie or her team or guarantee you a reply, however Tizzie and her team are active in the advice area when they feel the need to step in. If you haven’t received a reply to your post in the advice area in a timeframe that is acceptable to you then we recommend the following options –
If you haven’t received a reply to your post in the general forum in a timeframe that is acceptable to you then we recommend the following options –
1) Repost your question as it may be seen by other members or if you have asked more than one question within your post please consider dividing your questions and only ask one question per post. This may help and encourage other members to step in and help you as often a member may only know the answer to one of your questions and not the others and members may then feel they can’t answer you at all.
2) Seek out the help of a trusted maternal child health nurse, health visitor or another health care professional.
The Advice Area membership also gives you READ ONLY access to Archived Reading area where you can read further advice of experienced Save Our Sleep parents as well as the Save Our Sleep team. You will be able READ threads in the Archive Library area but you will not be able to post as this area is now closed.
Kind Regards
Kate
Save Our Sleep
Hi Tizzie,
My little one is 21 months. I have been following your routines for a little while now but since going to childcare she is finding it extremely hard to go to sleep. Childcare started at 15 months. Sometimes she won’t even sleep for daycare. She emotional cries if I even leave the room, its not a protest cry (which I can handle). I end up lying on her floor until she goes to sleep. I don’t look or talk to her… I’m just there. She then goes off pretty quickly and she’ll sleep the entire night but day naps as an hour if I’m lucky. She doesn’t use a comforter but did use the cot bars, I have taken your advice on airwraps and tried introducing a favourite teddy. She throws it out and won’t have a bar of it. Before childcare I never even heard a noise when I put her down. I don’t know what to do now.
Hi Hailey,
Thank you for your message. I’m sorry to hear that your daughter is having such a difficult time with her sleep, but unfortunately without lots of detailed information it is very difficult to guide you. Do you have Tizzie’s toddler book? On pages 81-85 Tizzie talks in detail about crying for toddlers and explains that at this age toddlers can learn what cry will get you to come in and can sound like an emotional cry. As your little one is settling quickly and easily when you are in there with her it sounds like this is possibly the case for your toddler. If you have read through the toddler book and still feel unsure what steps to take next with your little ones settling the we would encourage you to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice. This is where our members can help you work through your daughters settling issues by looking at all of her information regadring her routine, diet, bedding etc. in detail, as it is important to be sure that all possible causes of her being unsettled are covered before beginning to leave her to self settle again.
Online Advice – AUD $79.95 http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/product/1805/49457/
The Save Our Sleep Online Advice offers a friendly, supportive online community where parents can help other parents establish and follow Tizzie’s routines and advice and help answer any questions that may come up along the way. The Online Advice is a safe and secure environment where you can chat, help each other and share in the day to day joys, achievements and challenges of parenting. Tizzie and members of her team are actively involved in this area.
The Online Advice is a community of like-minded parents who willingly share their experiences, baby advice and support new members. The Save Our Sleep moderating team checks the advice given and a member of Tizzie’s team will step in only if incorrect, misleading or potentially unsafe advice is given. This area is a Forum only and does not entitle members to support directly from either Tizzie or her team or guarantee you a reply.
The Online Advice membership also gives you READ ONLY access to Archived Reading area where you can read further advice of experienced Save Our Sleep parents as well as the Save Our Sleep team. You will be able READ threads in the Archive Library area but you will not be able to post as this area is now closed.
Kind Regards
Kate
Save Our Sleep.
HI Tizzie,
I have started following your routine this week. When I put my 7 month-old in her cot for the night and leave the room, her protest cry becomes an emotional cry within minutes, sometimes seconds. I know all of her needs have been met (well-fed/ bedding/ room temp/ routine). When I go in to settle her in the cot, I stay and pat her tummy to sleep (I don’t leave the room after she has calmed, as I don’t want to confuse her). However, I don’t feel like this is giving her the opportunity to self settle, as she is just relying on me to come straight back in and aid her to sleep. I’ve never gotten anywhere near the recommended 18 minutes out of the room after putting her down, because of how quickly her emotional crying starts up.
Should I stay in the room until she’s asleep, even if I only left for a short period after putting her down? Am I encouraging her to self settle or just creating a sleep association with patting her to sleep? Should I leave her to cry for longer before going in, even if her cries are emotional?
Many thanks.
Hi Imogen,
Thank you for your message, and well done for getting started with the Save Our Sleep routines 🙂 I’m sorry to hear that your daughter is having such a difficult time settling to sleep, but unfortunately without lots of detailed information it is very difficult to guide you. Something we would look at would be your baby’s pre-bedtime routine, to be sure that she is going down wide awake and isn’t using anything before bed as a sleep aid that she then gets upset because she no longer has. This could include singing or cuddles before bed, feeding too close to bed time, as well as several other things.
It is also important to listen to your baby’s cry closely, as although sometimes it sounds very loud and angry this can be part of baby learning to self settle. An emotional cry will have no gaps or changes and baby does not need to pause at any point. Sometimes parents describe it as breathless as it is contant ‘wa wa wa wa wa wa’ with no change or pause. For a protest cry this will change in pitch, and can go to being very loud and angry sounding, as baby is used to you coming in to her, but is still a protest cry. This will sounds more like ‘wa wa WAAAAAA WAAAA wa waaaaaaaaaaa WA WA WA’ I hope that heps a little, as it can be difficult to explain 🙂
If you are still feeling unsure about your baby’s cries and feel that you need further support with teaching your baby to self settle, we encourage you to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice. This is where our members can help you work through your daughters settling issues by looking at all of her information regarding her routine, diet, bedding etc. in detail, as it is important to be sure that all possible causes of her being unsettled are covered before beginning to leave her to self settle again if you are unsure about her cry.
Online Advice – AUD $79.95 http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/product/1805/49457/
The Save Our Sleep Online Advice offers a friendly, supportive online community where parents can help other parents establish and follow Tizzie’s routines and advice and help answer any questions that may come up along the way. The Online Advice is a safe and secure environment where you can chat, help each other and share in the day to day joys, achievements and challenges of parenting. Tizzie and members of her team are actively involved in this area.
The Online Advice is a community of like-minded parents who willingly share their experiences, baby advice and support new members. The Save Our Sleep moderating team checks the advice given and a member of Tizzie’s team will step in only if incorrect, misleading or potentially unsafe advice is given. This area is a Forum only and does not entitle members to support directly from either Tizzie or her team or guarantee you a reply.
The Online Advice membership also gives you READ ONLY access to Archived Reading area where you can read further advice of experienced Save Our Sleep parents as well as the Save Our Sleep team. You will be able READ threads in the Archive Library area but you will not be able to post as this area is now closed.
Kind Regards
Kate
Save Our Sleep.
Hello Tizzie,
My daughter is 13 months and has been on your routine since arriving home from hospital. Our routine is slightly modified 6am – 6pm, regardless of the new issues she still sleeps through the night. Since developing the skill to self settle I have never had a problem until lately, she has started crying as soon as I walk over to her cot and it is nap or bed time in the evening. She has been refusing her morning sleep and some days I am finding it impossible for her to have an afternoon sleep. She has also been difficult to get to sleep in the evening, which is out of character for her. She will scream and cry until I pick her up, sometimes she just wants me to be in the room and other times she will be standing at the cot expecting me to pick her up. She does not have a comforter but she does suck her fingers. I know she is not cold as I have her room set to a temperature and always dressed the same, and her bedding has not changed. I am really stuck, she also attends day care 1-2 days a week. Daycare is rather relaxed, it sounds like she only has 2 very short sleeps there but she has always adjusted back into her home routine without and issue. I would love any advice you have.
Thank you.
Hi there
I have been following the save our sleep guide for 2 weeks with my 4 month old son.. During the day he does protest cry from 5-10min before going to sleep and sometimes will wake after a sleep cycle and grizzle for another 10 before falling back to sleep and other times he will sleep for full 2hrs without a sound. However at night he protest cries from 30-45mins! We do not go into the room as we know he is ok and when we go into the room to try settle him it doesn’t work. He used to be rocked to sleep and I found when first starting the routine going in and gently rocking the bassinet would stop him from crying so I knew he was just relying on that to settle so didn’t want to continue doing that and can’t now anyway as he has been in the cot the last few days. My question is, is it normal for babies to protest longer at night? And will he ever go to bed and sleep without protest crying and if yes how long do I have to follow the routine before this happens? Thanks Lana
Also I just want to add that I find it hard to stick to the routine at times as baby wakes before 7am and then that mucks up the nap times and also his bed time. What do I do if he wakes early from his naps and night time sleep?
Hi Lana,
Thank you for your post and well done on getting started on the Save Our Sleep routines and techniques. Here is a link to where you can find an article where Tizzie talks about issues settling at 7pm or waking after 40 mins at the 7pm bedtime – http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/product/1802/31443/ . There are quite a few factors that can impact on baby’s ability to self settle at this time, and this article will explain all of the things we suggest looking at to help your baby settle more easily at this time. Some babies will always have a little protest at bedtime as part of the way they wind down and fall asleep, but with following Tizzie’s advice you should be able to really minimise this and have baby settle without too much fuss. Sometimes this will take just a few days other times it may take a little longer while you work through the possible factors that are causing your baby to have trouble settling.
With waking early, at this age Tizzie recommends feeding your baby if they wake before 6.40am and then popping him back to bed until 7am or for 20 mins whichever is later. This should help him avoid becoming too tired and you should then be able to stick to the routine times. With day catnapping you need to follow the advice on pages 187-191 for how to resettle when your baby wakes early from his sleep and this will help with keeping him to routine times.
Without lots of very detailed information we are not able to guide you accurately. If you feel that you need more detailed support with your little ones sleeps and routine then you may like to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice, where our members can help you look at everything in detail, as Tizzie’s fan page is not a place where we can offer you advice about your baby. http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1805/ .
Kind regards,
Kate.
Save Our Sleep.
Hi Elisa,
Thank you for your question. For some babies having a short protest when they are put down for bed can be quite normal and almost a way of winding down for sleep, but there are some things you can look at to help minimise this and help her settle with a little less fuss. Sometimes protesting like this is because they have been aided to sleep a little before going to bed, sometimes this is a cuddle or rocking before being put down, other times this can be as simple as having quiet books being red before bed or not enough active play, so we would encourage you to look at her time before bed and make sure she is getting lots of active play.
Something else you can do is make sure you are smiling and happy and talking to her as you are popping her in her sleep bag, and this can help to reassure her that everything is ok and that going to be is good and happy event.
Without lots of very detailed information we are not able to guide you any further. If you feel that you need more detailed support with your little ones sleeps and routine then you may like to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice, where our members can help you look at everything in detail, as Tizzie’s fan page is not a place where we can offer you advice about your baby. http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1805/ .
Kind regards,
Kate.
Save Our Sleep.
Hello, I have started my 16 week old on your routine this week and have seen some really great improvements.
He sleeps through with a dream feed, constantly resettling himself however during the day is a different story.
He will only sleep for one sleep cycle if that! How long will it take before he can learn to self settle himself during naps? Also am I meant to get him up after every nap and praise him or see if he resettles after protest crying? I am also really worried that I am not reading his cries correctly. Im sure that I know the difference its just that the 12 mins kills me! Since starting the routine I haven’t had to go and help him for the 46 mins as he hasn’t cried for long enough and settled himself. Is that normal?
I hope I haven’t asked too many questions!!
Thanks in advance for your help. I just feel really lost.
Hi Lana,
Congratulations on getting started on Save Our Sleep routines and techniques! If your baby is not sleeping his full sleeps during the day then we would recommend following the advice on pages 187-191 of the latest edition of the baby book (pages 175-179 of the previous edition) which covers the causes of catnapping and how to resettle your baby while you work out why he is waking early.
Tizzie advises for a baby this age that when they catnap you should get baby up and keep him swaddled, and then resettle in the pram or baby swing etc (fully supervised for safety) to encourage more sleep until his next feed is due. What he does will help to indicate why he has woken. If he settles on your chest then this can indicate that he is not warm enough to sleep well in his bed (here is a link to Tizzie’s safe bedding guide to help you work through the possibility of cold http://www.saveoursleep.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/save-our-sleep-article-safe-bedding-guide.pdf) .
If your baby is unsettled and crying and will not settle back to sleep then this can indicate hunger or pain. Winding every 3 mins for breast or 30ml for a bottle will help with possible wind issues, and being sure to always feed your baby until full will help with hunger issues. At this age Tizzie would also suggest that it is time to start solids as per her advice in the baby book and Feeding book, so please have a read of this section to see if your baby is ready to start solids.
If he is wide awake and just looking around it may be that he will benefit from a little more awake time.
Unfortunately without lots of detailed information we are unable to guide you further. If you feel that you need more detailed advice and support then you may like to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice, where our coaches can help you look at everything in detail and work though everything step by step with you. http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1805/ .
Kind regards,
Kate.
Save Our Sleep.
Hi Carlee :
Congratulations on your new baby! If it is a cry that is on and off and changing pitch and tone then it does sound like you are correct and that it was a protest cry, especially as he stopped protesting and settled off to sleep from a quiet settled state. Without lots of information though it is really very hard to tell why he may have been making some noise in his sleep after that, it will depend on lots of things including how long he was asleep after he settled and before he started making the noises. We would look at lots of things other things also to help with his settling and sleep including his milk in take (what and how much he is having) his routine, any possible sleep aids, his bedding and quite a few more things. Unfortunately we are just not able to go into that here on Tizzie’s BLOG so if you feel that you need more detailed advice and support then you may like to consider joining the Save Our Sleep® Online Advice, where our coaches can help you look at everything in detail and work though everything step by step with you. http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1805/ .
Kind regards,
Kate.
Save Our Sleep.
Hi,
You mention about comforter to help baby sleep. Is this applies for baby thats only 4 weeks old? I thought you are not meant to put comforter in their bedding at such a young age due to SIDS?
Hi Silvie,
Thank you for your email.
Tizzie recommends introducing a safe comforter from birth if you are following her advice and using a safe arms down swaddle. Tizzie has put extensive research into the comforters that she recommends to her family, friends and clients. This includes ensuring that they are breathable, that the fur is safe and not loose, that the filling is safe, and that the size of the comforter is safe, among other things. If you are using a comforter other than those specifically recommended by Tizzie, we cannot guarantee it’s safety (the range of comforters Tizzie recommends can be seen here – http://shop.saveoursleep.com.au/category/1175/ ).
What I can do is give you some information about Tizzie’s comforters and then you will have to decide if you are happy to use them.
The Save Our Sleep comforters are made from a high quality, asthma friendly, polyester fabric. We tried various cottons but they just didn’t last, most only lasted a year or two and the current ones last 7 years.
All of Tizzie’s comforters have been Australian Standards tested as safe for use from newborn. However, Tizzie recommends that if your baby is less than 6 months of age you should only use a comforter in the cot or crib if your baby is fully swaddled (wrapped). Tizzie recommends swaddling until your baby shows signs of being able to roll while swaddled, which is generally 10-12 months. If your baby is NOT swaddled then Tizzie recommends you should not introduce the comforter until 6 months of age.
The reason Tizzie says not to use the comforters with a baby less than six months and that is not swaddled is because the baby can pull the comforter over his or her face and get a fright. It is not a suffocation risk as the comforters are breathable. Please note that this comment relates specifically to the comforters recommended in the online store. We cannot guarantee the safety of other brands of comforters. For some advice on selecting a safe comforter you can read this link – http://www.saveoursleep.com/free-reading/baby-comforters-comfort-baby-joy-parents/ .
I hope this helps to answer your question.
Kind regards
Kate.
Save Our Sleep.
Hi,
My baby is 9 weeks old and after reading the book, I wasn’t too sure about how to put her back to sleep in the night after having her night feed.
Am I supposed to put her down to self settle and wait the minimum 6 mins of protest crying before going in and settling her? Or do I skip that and go straight to the intervening part (patting her) after her feed?
Does this also apply if she wakes up before her next feed is due?
Thank you